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Leap 1: Will Leap recognize tags I've added with other programs?

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    Leap and Yep automatically share tags.

    Leap can recognize tags from quite a few different locations. Perhaps one of the most popular places to store tags is 'Spotlight comments'. If you have a Spotlight comment for a file set to "&travel &France", then Leap will, with it's preferences set up correctly, be able to read (and write) those tags. Since several other programs write tags in this format to the spotlight comments, this helps Leap integrate with those programs.

    There is another class of tags, ones that Leap cannot change, because the tags are hard-coded into the document, or for other reasons. Leap calls these tags 'read-only keywords'. Leap has several preferences to read these read-only keywords in from Adobe Bridge XMP, spotlight keywords, etc. Note that some tag formats in Spotlight comments are treated by Leap as read-only. Please see the manual.
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeMay 17th 2009
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />I own both Yep and Leap -- the latest versions. It seems to me that Yep is much easier to use for tagging, so I use it rather than Leap to tag documents. Unfortunately, I have discovered that tags added in Yep are not showing up in Leap (2.0b9) on my system.
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      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeMay 17th 2009
     
    Guest:

    Leap 2 is using our new OpenMeta system for tagging while Yep is using its own proprietary system. We are currently rewriting Yep to use the new system.
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2009
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />hello, i found this problem too.
    I'm still evaluating the product, if I buy the suite with yep and leap 2 you are promoting..
    do i need to pay for next version of yep if new yep comes out?
    looking forward to leap 2 and yep works together.
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2009
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />Just found this issue as well. Looking for a solution to manage scanned docs ( receipts, letters etc ) and comparing Leap and Yep noticed that docs tagged in Leap are not showing those tags in Yep. Yep seems better solution for my needs but not sure what to do given that comment above suggest that Yep is not yet using OpenMeta for tagging ? If I buy Yep now will OpenMeta release be a paid upgrade or free ?
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2009
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />I'm having quite similar problem. At least, I know why, after I red the posts above : OpenMeta and proprietary sytem...doesn't work together...

    I'm tagging my documents (including pdf's) with the nice little "fresh" thumb-index on the right of the finder (by the way, why did you took away that thumb-index from leap? was realy useful...). But the tags are not recognized in Yep... So yep becomes useless form me, because I don't want to re-tag all my pdf's and I don't want to tag them into yep...

    When do you plan to change yep proprietary sytem into OpenMeta ?

    Thanks 4 your repply

    C_alemar
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      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2009
     
    There is no official decision on the upgrade path for Yep but recent adopters will most likely receive preferential treatment. As far as an ETA on the next version of Yep, the information is not yet available and will be announced when it is.

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorC_almar
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2009
     
    Ok, Thanks 4 your answer. I'll wait until you have the news then ;-).

    Best regards.

    C_almar
    • CommentAuthorNorAK
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    If I go through the trouble of tagging my documents now in Yep, and you upgrade Yep it to work like Leap 2, will my Yep tags be upgraded? Or is it wiser to tag everything now in Leap, as that is the more "modern" tag system, that will eventually work in Yep? I don't want to go through documents and have to tag them twice. What do you suggest?
    • CommentAuthorJan
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    Hi NorAK

    It seems safe to assume that Yep 2 will read and convert all tags from Yep 1 when it ships (this was the case with Leap 2 and Leap 1).

    That said, if you tag your files with Leap now, other OpenMeta-compliant applications can see those tags, while tags you add in Yep are visible only in Yep for now.

    If you work with tags mainly or exclusively in Yep, it seems more useful to tag them there for now and convert later. If you want to use tags for all kinds of files (not just PDF), tagging in Leap may make more sense.

    Hope this helps
    Jan
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      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    NorAK:

    Jan's spot on with this assessment. The advice is sound as well. Though you can handle PDFs in Leap, there are enough niceties in Yep that I still prefer to use Yep for PDFs knowing I can convert later.

    Jim

    Jan: Thanks for the assists!
    • CommentAuthorsjk
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    Suggestion:

    Make a sticky/faq out of this some similar tag interoperability thread, or create a new one to answer the oft-asked "will Yep 1 read Leap 2 tags?" (and vice versa) question.
    • CommentAuthorNorAK
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    Thanks for all of your suggestions. So here is another part of the question: how are the tags "attached" to the documents. I am a lawyer, so if I tag a document for myself with "Critical" be used for my own benefit, and I provide electronic copies of pdf's to the other side, will my tags get copied over with the pdf and handed to opposing counsel? Is there a way to copy pdf's with and without tags? I might want them to move a document from my work computer to my laptop, but not if I am providing them to someone else, so how is this handled?
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      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    You bring up an interesting case, NorAK (no pun intended). In Yep's current state the Tags are kept in a proprietary database and visible only to a machine running Yep and tracking the location of the same PDFs (an unlikely scenario for opposing counsel - lol).

    The new system we've introduced, OpenMeta, (in a sense) keeps the Tags with the files. These Tags, while not perfectly permanent, could be transmitted in some circumstances.

    • Currently OpenMeta Tags do not survive a trip through email. If you send a files (or files - in a folder or not) uncompressed, the Tags will be lost. (This is assuming you're not using MailTags from InDev Software).. I just tagged and sent a file, then a folder of 5 files all tagged to myself and the Tags are gone when I retrieve them from email.

    • There could be some potential workarounds with Applescript / shell scripting, etc.

    I will pass this up the ladder to the developers and see what they think about this too.

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorNorAK
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009
     
    Jim, thanks. The issue of the transmission of "metadata" is getting to be a big deal in law, and it really is important in this profession to be able to control whether it is attached or not, so it would be great if that could be considered by the developers.

    For non-lawyers, it could still be an issue if a document goes through 4-5 people or more (electronic = viral) and each person ads new tags and they are cumulative, or one person's tags don't fit another's system.

    Meanwhile, if I take a 300 page pdf file home, break it down into 10 pdf documents of 30 pages each, with file names and tags, to be part of my system of exhibits, I need to transport those tags, and potentially share a tag structure between home and office computers. If I can't email myself the items with tags attached, do they stay attached on a thumb drive?
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      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2009 edited
     
    I sent the link to the developers to make sure they're aware of this discussion.

    If I can't email myself the items with tags attached, do they stay attached on a thumb drive?
    Most thumbdrives are formatted as FAT32 to make them cross-platform. Tags can persist on one but if the files were tagged when they were one the thumbdrive you'd probably have a better chance of retaining them. (I say this in a cautionary way. I have successfully moved Tagged files to an external FAT32 drive from within Leap or the Finder and had them remain intact. Note: I do have Spotlight indexing turned on for this drive too or it wouldn't work. Just giving you some options. 8^D )
    Or… Work with the files on your machine, tagging, etc. Zip it then put them on the thumbdrive. When you decompress the ZIP on the other machine, the Tags should be intact.

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorNorAK
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2009
     
    Jim --

    1. So if I want to frequently move a project with a lot of tags from one machine to another, like home and office, would it be best to put all of the files and tags on an external drive and just move it physically? Would it be good to put a copy of Yep on the external drive too and operate out of that, or would the application part not really matter if the application was at home and at the office?

    2. Are tags recoverable from a Time Machine backup?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2009
     
    @1: What you suggest about the external is how I do it. You don't need to load Yep on the external though - you just need to track the external in the Tracking Preferences.

    @2: Yes. The Tags are stored in a single compressed file.
    • CommentAuthorJan
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2009
     
    @NorAK

    You can e-mail documents while preserving their tags if you zip them before attaching them to the e-mail. (Tis would be easy to automate with an AppleScript droplet.)

    Note that this makes only sense when sending the files to another Mac because Windows and Linux systems at least currently do not support the type of tags you can add with Mac OS X (including but not limited to OpenMeta tags), so the tags would be discarded once you unpack the Zip archive.

    Regards
    Jan
  20.  
    So, it's been several months -- how long is this rewrite going to take? How can you offer a combined deal for Leap and Yep without prominently mentioning they don't work with each other? Lame.
  21.  
    So I just noticed a 2.0 beta of Yep. Does this work with Leap tags?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2009
     
    Yep 2 and Leap 2 both use OpenMeta Tags.
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />I've randomly tagged files in Yep and Leap (more in Yep than Leap). Now, I can't see all of my Yep tags in Leap. Is there a way I can remedy this?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    The best bet is upgrading to Yep 2 and Leap 2.
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />I have Leap 2.5.4 and yep 2.0.9 but I still can't see all of my Yep Tags in Leap. Can you offer a solution?

    Thanks
    •  
      CommentAuthorBLUEFROG
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010 edited
     
    Assuming you had Yep 1.x previously:

    1. On opening Yep 2, did you OK the conversion of Yep 1 Tags to OpenMeta? If No, select File > Restore Metadata. Navigate to your ~/Library/Application Support/Yep folder and choose the docInfo.plist.gz file.

    If the Tags were only in Yep 2.x and are not seen by Leap 2.x, I'll need more info. Both apps use OpenMeta and require no "conversion" from one to the other.

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorguest
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    <strong>Guest:</strong><br /><br />I never owned Yep 1. Before I tried to run Restore Metadata I used the Backup Metadata function. Then, I followed your instructions to Restore Metadata but didn't see the docInfo.plist.gz file. So, I closed both programs and opened them again, and the Backup seems to have fixed the problem.

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